< Back

Is ICE Law Enforcement? Young Trump Supporters, The Enlightenment, and More!

Main Discussion Topics

Critique of Harry Binswanger's ICE Article

Michael analyzes Binswanger's article arguing people aren't morally obligated to obey ICE commands
Uses AI fact-checking (Grok and ChatGPT) to verify claims in the article
Identifies multiple factual errors and logical fallacies in Binswanger's reasoning
Key errors: misidentifying ICE's legal nature, misstating due process protections, ignoring real legal constraints

Michael explained his methodology: "The reason I don't like to just submit it to AI is because nobody can argue that AI has a horse in the race. Nobody can argue that AI is biased, that it has a personal vendetta against Harry."

ChatGPT's assessment of the article: "On accuracy, the article miss-identifies ICE's legal nature, misstates due process, misuses arbitrary. On logic, it employs stolen context, context dropping, false analogies, emotionalism, category errors, and non-contradiction violations."

Discussion of ICE's actual legal authority over US citizens who obstruct
US citizens who interfere with ICE can be arrested and charged criminally with full due process
Non-citizens in immigration detention have limited but existing legal protections including bond hearings and habeas corpus access

Michael clarified the constitutional point: "The fact that it has constitutional restraints that it can violate is a hint that Harry's wrong, because they are restricted. Otherwise we couldn't reference the Constitution when they violate it."

The Andy Bernstein Question

Michael addresses criticism for maintaining friendship with Andy Bernstein despite disagreements on Trump
Argues for not disavowing people who make honest errors versus evasions
Principle: if person's good qualities outweigh bad qualities, maintain the relationship
Extends same principle to Binswanger's flawed reasoning

Michael stated his position: "If a person is making honest errors rather than evasions or lies, and if that person's good qualities outweigh their bad qualities, I am not cutting that person off. And Andy's good qualities far outweigh his bad qualities, although I think he is badly, badly wrong on Donald Trump."

He argued for consistency: "My ultimate point here, if we are to reject Andy Bernstein because of his flawed reasoning, then we must reject Harry as well. We must disavow him. I would disavow neither. People make mistakes. People err, including me."

Legitimacy of Federal Law Enforcement Agencies

Discussion of whether alphabet agencies like FBI, CIA, DEA, and ICE are constitutional
Mark argues these agencies are "anti-American" despite having legal force
Debate about civil disobedience against illegitimate but legally empowered authorities
Historical context: intelligence gathering was previously done by military, not CIA

Mark stated: "In my view, arguing for civil disobedience against an illegitimate authority that has legal power over you is to me, the moral thing to do. It's civil disobedience and you'll have to pay the consequences for it, of course. But I think protesting them is a legitimate action."

Michael cautioned: "The problem I have here is that there's so much illegitimacy if we're going to judge by constitutional originalism. I don't think that it's appropriate to single out ICE for these arguments and make a flawed case."

Alarming Poll Results: Young Trump Supporters

Axios report on young Trump voters (Gen Z and millennials) reveals disturbing cultural shifts

Key statistics from young Trump voter poll:

49% say America needs more masculinity
48% believe Trump should act urgently even if it means ignoring Supreme Court
43% think being religious is more rebellious than being atheist
40% want more religion in government and public life
26% believe in relationships the man should lead and woman should follow
20% say violence is sometimes needed to advance political causes
15% believe some races are naturally inferior to others
6% say Nick Fuentes is the public figure they agree with most about politics

Mark analyzed the trend: "These are young folks, Gen Z and millennials who are searching for some kind of cultural identity. They're rejecting what's going on in the left, but they're rejecting it in the way that Tate character did. They're embracing guys like this, people who really do have a jaundiced view of what men are, what relationships between men and women are, and what right and wrong is."

Michael concluded: "In my view, that just about puts the dagger in the idea that the left is a bigger threat to freedom than the right."

Young people seeking moral guidance but looking to wrong figures like Trump and Andrew Tate
Reaction to left's insanity leading to embrace of dominance-submission worldview
Discussion of what can be done: providing rational alternatives through consistent content

Michael explained the challenge: "It's real easy to hear Trump come out and give a stupid speech and he's very emotional and everybody, yeah, rah, rah, go Trump. But it's more difficult to actually read, to weigh evidence, to indict yourself and your own thinking, to make sure that you're correct. That's not easy, but it's a must."

The Enlightenment's Unfinished Business

Discussion of Daily Economy article on American founding principles
America unique in having principles by which to measure itself
Declaration of Independence and Constitution enable country to check itself and make corrections

Mark read from the article: "The American founding launched a revolutionary era idea: rights exist first, and government exists to secure them. It's beautiful, transformative, and perpetually unfinished."

Despite 250 years since founding, still working to fully understand individual rights
Thomas Jefferson's bridge between abstract philosophy and applied constitutionalism
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights"
"To secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed"

Mark emphasized: "America is attempting to find its moral purity. It's attempting to reach for those principles all the time, and that's what makes us exceptional in the world. Now we have to understand that 250 years after the establishment of this unique principle of individual rights, we still don't quite know what they mean overall."

Objectivists understand nature of rights, but establishment left and right do not
Need to share and promote proper understanding of founding principles

Renee Goode Shooting - No Federal Investigation

Deputy Attorney General announces they are not investigating the shooting
Government immediately labeled incident as domestic terrorism and shooting as justified
Michael believes case could potentially be made for second-degree murder
Only internal investigation will occur, not FBI investigation
Government "circling the wagons" around the shooter

Mark connected to larger issue: "Michael, this just fuels the Harry Binswanger fire. This is what makes people very suspicious of the establishment and these alphabet soup agencies and their legitimacy is when they circle the wagons around somebody who it seems clearly from all video evidence has been involved in a wrongful shooting."

Michael stated: "I was never the fact that the government immediately came out and said it was a domestic terrorist and that the shooting was justified. I think is very, very bad. I think there should be an investigation. I don't think there would be, and even if there were, I wouldn't trust it at this point."

Can People Honestly Believe 2020 Election Was Stolen?

Ian Gilmore asks if it's possible five years later to honestly believe there was election fraud
Michael argues yes, it's possible due to media distrust and echo chambers
Left-wing media dishonesty drove people away to equally unreliable right-wing sources
People living in information bubbles without exposure to alternative perspectives

Michael explained his view: "I think that the left-wing media for so long didn't comport itself very well and I think that a lot of people turned away from it and simply will not listen any longer. And so what ends up happening is they have turned to other media sources that are not reliable either, but they have not yet discovered that."

He used his own experience as example: "When the Iraq War was going on, I had already discredited the mainstream media. So as the mainstream media was saying that things were going horribly, I did not trust them. And I listened to Rush Limbaugh who every day was saying, no, they're wrong. I had a subscription to the Weekly Standard, a conservative magazine. So I had a faulty perspective on things."

MAGA influencers on social media constantly promote new "evidence" of fraud
If someone rejects all fact-checkers as liars, corrections become meaningless
Mark notes smart people he knows who still believe there was fraud based on narrow local experiences
Both left and right suffer from cognitive biases and spread fake news

Michael on the current problem: "Every day I get stuff through my feed that's arguing that the election was stolen. There's new evidence this has been revealed, that's been revealed. And I look into it and it turns out it's false. But here's the rub: if I've already said that all these fact checkers are liars, which a lot of these MAGA types say, then going to a fact checker does nothing."

Notable Quotes

Michael on Honest Errors vs. Evasion: "If a person is making honest errors rather than evasions or lies, and if that person's good qualities outweigh their bad qualities, I am not cutting that person off."

Mark on Illegitimate but Powerful Agencies: "In my view, arguing for civil disobedience against an illegitimate authority that has legal power over you is to me, the moral thing to do. It's civil disobedience and you'll have to pay the consequences for it, of course."

Michael on Flawed Arguments: "Fallacious reasoning buttressed by inaccurate claims is not the way to convince people."

Mark on Young Voters' Cultural Searching: "This young generation is looking for moral guidance and they're looking to the Donald Trumps and the Andrew Tates of the world instead of Ayn Rand, people who could give them a clear perspective of rights and politics."

Michael on the Real Threat: "In my view, that just about puts the dagger in the idea that the left is a bigger threat to freedom than the right."

Mark on American Exceptionalism: "One of the things America gets criticized for all the time is that it's never lived up to its principles. Number one, it has principles unlike pretty much every other country in the world to measure itself by."

Michael on Intellectual Work: "It's real easy to hear Trump come out and give a stupid speech and he's very emotional. But it's more difficult to actually read, to weigh evidence, to indict yourself and your own thinking, to make sure that you're correct. That's not easy, but it's a must."

Mark on Constitutional Standards: "The country is in process and trying to align itself with these principles. That's our overall goal as the American Capitalist Party: to align ourselves with the founding principles and then some."

Michael on Echo Chambers: "If I've already said that all these fact checkers are liars, which a lot of these MAGA types say, then going to a fact checker does nothing. It means absolutely nothing."

Referenced Media

Harry Binswanger article on ICE and moral obligation to obey
Axios report on young Trump voters and cultural attitudes
Daily Economy article: "A Dream of Freedom, the Enlightenment Unfinished Business"
Michael's episode on The Rational Egoist with political scientist on political tribalism
Ongoing series with Jim Valliant on OPAR for self-improvement

Key Themes

Intellectual honesty requires consistency in evaluating reasoning regardless of conclusions
Young people seeking moral guidance in wrong places due to rejection of left's excesses
American founding as ongoing process of aligning with principles, not completed project
Federal law enforcement agencies' constitutional legitimacy and potential for abuse
Media distrust creating echo chambers that prevent access to accurate information
Importance of facts and sound reasoning over confirmation bias
Civil disobedience against illegitimate authority requires accepting consequences

Capitalist Thought of the Day

"Today we've been talking about law enforcement agencies that are illegitimate but nevertheless have the power to arrest you. In a capitalist society, law enforcement would only have the power to arrest you if you are committing crimes, that means you are initiating force or fraud against another human being. There would be no alphabet soup agencies like the tobacco and firearms and there would be no FBI and there would be no any of these agencies out there, drug enforcement agency, ICE, all of them would be gone. They are superfluous. The only thing that the police are supposed to do is protect your property and protect you from violence. And for us that means a society of the widest degree of freedom and choice. So in a capitalist society, no alphabet soup agencies would exist. No extra constitutional agencies of law enforcement would exist that could do the bidding of the government as opposed to serve the people." - Mark